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Instant Cure vs. Gradual Recovery

Hi Everyone,

When it comes to this whole notion of the "self" being at the root of human suffering, I've noticed there are two schools of thought that people fall into. The first are the people who say there is an instant, point-of-no-return seeing that causes all suffering to drop away; the second are people like John Sherman (actually, just him, as far as I know) who suggest that recovery through inward looking is a much more gradual process. In reading John's story, it almost seems as if John has experienced both: first an instant recovery, then a relapse, then a gradual recovery... (Both somehow related to the notion of the self.)

I think we can all agree: we would all prefer instant relief if given a choice (provided it has a lasting effect).

I have noticed SOME benefit from the looking, but honestly, I am REALLY starting to lose my patience with the length of the recovery process. I can't bear the thought of two to five more years, before I settle into sanity. I have so much inner turmoil right now, and I am really disappointed that John (as if it was somehow his sole obligation) cannot offer us something that can break the chains of misery, quickly, easily, and effortlessly. Of course, those who claim to offer something like that have failed me as well. I don't really care who it comes from, I'm just tired of thrashing about for an answer to my simple inability to find five minutes where I don't feel as if I'm never going to resolve the tangle of emotional stuckness inside me that is robbing me of living a normal life.

franco14

When it comes to this whole notion of the "self" being at the root of human suffering, I've noticed there are two schools of thought that people fall into. The first are the people who say there is an instant, point-of-no-return seeing that causes all suffering to drop away; the second are people like John Sherman (actually, just him, as far as I know) who suggest that recovery through inward looking is a much more gradual process. In reading John's story, it almost seems as if John has experienced both: first an instant recovery, then a relapse, then a gradual recovery... (Both somehow related to the notion of the self.)

There are others who say similar, for example Jed Mckenna and Nisargadatta, but John's suggestion is clear, direct, devoid of misleading abstractions.

franco14

I have noticed SOME benefit from the looking, but honestly, I am REALLY starting to lose my patience with the length of the recovery process. I can't bear the thought of two to five more years, before I settle into sanity...

Yes, I've felt the same.

But then what else is there to do? There's been some focus on the recovery in this forum and in the talks recently. But if there wasn't recovery, there would be regular life, and how much worse is the recovery than regular life with a deluded mind?

In my experience, the annoying parts of the recovery, if that's what this is, come in the form of existentialist questions (when will I be done, when can I stop thinking about this), and from the gnawing experience of the separation of life (lack of motivation in the conventional goals, isolation). And I suppose there is some sense that the clock is ticking by, that life is not waiting while I recover.

Yeah, it would be very cool if it were instant.

-Kaushik

Losing patience

Hi franco14,

I've been thinking quite a lot about this specific subject the last few days, how John's method of looking at yourself seems to be the exact opposite of many spiritual/psychological/philosophical solutions. And at the core it is exactly the opposite in my understanding - instead of building a new context which tries to create and nurture all the right conditions to live life naturally, you just put your attention on yourself, see who you really are, and let everything sort itself out the best you can.

franco14

I think we can all agree: we would all prefer instant relief if given a choice (provided it has a lasting effect).

Two months ago I would have agreed very much. Now I simply cannot agree. The suffering I once wanted relief from, and the relief from that suffering, were two sides of the same coin, and I was running after my own tail to try and find the peace I felt I naturally deserved. I know now beyond any doubt that I am untouched by any idea whatsoever I may harbor about 'my' life, including this mad search for the end of suffering. And all it took was one look in the right direction, to recognize for the first time who I am, and that I never am, never was and never will be defined by any mental activity. Of course, that didn't mean that the mental activity, including the running after my own tail would stop instantly, nor that I would at all times see all these old habits as unreal. But it does mean that I now have the choice to step out of them, although moving my attention away from them might be very difficult at times. But I firmly believe that this is all I can do. I cannot recover myself, I cannot heal myself. But I can let that healing happen, and let the old and useless quest for not-suffering die a natural death. It's not because it's still alive that it still has purpose, but that is easy to forget at times.

Anyway, this feeling of losing patience with this never ending quest for not-suffering you mentioned is actually a good sign. To me that means you're ready to let it die, which is good as far as I know. In me this being fed up with these old tools (which never worked, and if they helped it wasn't for long) paved the road for real patience - the trust to abide in the unfolding of the healing, which started spontaneously upon seeing me. Just letting it all sort itself out, without focusing on and breathing life back into the dying ideas that I am bad or wrong or unfinished or need more work.

Hope this helps.

Wouter

Instant Cure vs Gradual Recovery

FluoSmurf

Anyway, this feeling of losing patience with this never ending quest for not-suffering you mentioned is actually a good sign. To me that means you're ready to let it die, which is good as far as I know. In me this being fed up with these old tools (which never worked, and if they helped it wasn't for long) paved the road for real patience - the trust to abide in the unfolding of the healing, which started spontaneously upon seeing me. Just letting it all sort itself out, without focusing on and breathing life back into the dying ideas that I am bad or wrong or unfinished or need more work.

Hope this helps.

Wouter

Hi all,

When I suffered before looking, I believed in the permanence of it. I felt trapped and wanted to deny and avoid and separate from life because it seemed my only escape. Now, with the looking, I have experienced many beliefs clearing and I can conclude any insanity arising is temporary. Even if I find I am focusing on and breathing life back into the dying ideas; even as I suffer, I know they are just more symptoms of the disease that never have harmed me and will go in their own time leaving no residue. I am more willing to experience what is here. Wanting that instant cure is less relevant. It seems to me, I have this day to experience. Even suffering on this day is better than feeling separate from life. Lera

The Nut of it

I know now beyond any doubt that I am untouched by any idea whatsoever I may harbor about 'my' life, including this mad search for the end of suffering. And all it took was one look in the right direction, to recognize for the first time who I am, and that I never am, never was and never will be defined by any mental activity ... But I firmly believe that this is all I can do. I cannot recover myself, I cannot heal myself. But I can let that healing happen, and let the old and useless quest for not-suffering die a natural death.

Brilliant Wouter! This is "it" in a nutshell! Beautifully said.

With love,

Dawn

The awakeness

lerajane

Hi all,

... even as I suffer, I know they are just more symptoms of the disease that never have harmed me and will go in their own time leaving no residue. I am more willing to experience what is here ... It seems to me, I have this day to experience. Even suffering on this day is better than feeling separate from life. (my bold type) Lera

Lera, these words just open my heart! "Even suffering on this day is better than feeling separate from life." Right now I'm in the midst of a deep discomfort in my body that is (if I compare and contrast it...) one of the most difficult and challenging times of my life, and yet ... right here in the midst of it I am resting in comfort, in a deep compassion and love, that I have never experienced before. The pain and fear are still present -- but now they are more like the sound of children's voices playing on the street below as I rest on my bed, listening. I can hear them, but as I do, I feel calm, rested, I'm just breathing and hearing them resonate, hearing them as they echo in the larger landscape of who I really am. And in the midst of the fear, I am free of it.

Thank you all for your postings here, it is so good to know all you guys are there, are here, are everywhere.

With love,

Dawn

Instant Cure vs Gradual Recovery

Directcontact

The pain and fear are still present -- but now they are more like the sound of children's voices playing on the street below as I rest on my bed, listening. I can hear them, but as I do, I feel calm, rested, I'm just breathing and hearing them resonate, hearing them as they echo in the larger landscape of who I really am. And in the midst of the fear, I am free of it.

With love,

Dawn

To Dawn,

I like your analogy of the distant voices. As I mentioned before, pain grabs attention like nothing else; sounds like you are practicing refocusing your attention. Keep breathing. It is always good to see you posting here. Lera

 

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